Legislature(1993 - 1994)
03/09/1994 08:15 AM House RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SB 46 - Authorize Moose Farming CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS stated it is the committee's third hearing on SB 46. At the last hearing, a lot of testimony was taken and at the end of the hearing, Senator Miller was requested to work with state agencies to draft a proposed substitute version. He said Senator Miller's office, the Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G), and the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) had met and the proposed committee substitute for SB 46 is in committee members' folders. Number 028 SENATOR MIKE MILLER, PRIME SPONSOR SB 46, stated in working with the two departments, 95 percent of the problems on the original version, which passed out of the Senate have been worked out, and stressed the last five percent can be the most difficult. He felt the remaining problem is a philosophical problem. He explained the remaining problem is on page 4, section 4 where current statute is being amended in the definition of game farm animal. Currently the statute includes bison, elk, reindeer and musk oxen and being added are caribou, moose and Sitka black-tailed deer. He noted ADF&G has a problem with that addition. Number 040 SENATOR MILLER believed the department's problem with the ability to set up an experimental animal husbandry program has been resolved on page 8, subsection (c). It is envisioned that moose and Sitka black-tailed deer will probably be included in that program. (CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS noted for the record that REPRESENTATIVES HUDSON, BUNDE, AND FINKELSTEIN joined the committee.) Number 061 REPRESENTATIVE JOHN DAVIES asked what the impetus is for adding caribou, moose, and Sitka black-tailed deer to the game farm definition. SENATOR MILLER replied caribou, under the 1937 federal provision, cannot be farmed unless they are farmed by a Native group. He felt caribou should be left in the definition because of lawsuits ongoing with the federal government. Taking caribou out of the definition would be a capitulation to the federal government on the issue. He said Sitka black-tailed deer are a farmable animal. In regard to moose, once something is out of a statute and there may be a promise at some point later to add it to the statute, he said it is usually easier said than done. He thought it will be better to include moose in the statute and the experimental process and if it does not work out, a license may never be issued for moose farming. On the other hand, it may be determined that a license can be issued but if it is not in the statute, a license cannot be issued. REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN said moose are not a herd-type animal and are notoriously inefficient. He asked why someone would want to domesticate moose. SENATOR MILLER agreed and stated he would never propose farming moose himself, but he knows there is at least one individual in the audience who would like to farm moose. He added moose farming is one of those things that unless it is tried, how does one know whether or not it will be successful. Number 098 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said on page 8, in subsection (d)(2), it states "demonstrated the ability to properly care for..." and mentioned his mind thinks of dairy farms where an animal, which has been domesticated for thousands of years, lives in hideous conditions. SENATOR MILLER felt that ADF&G will not allow that to happen as there are going to be tight, stringent regulations. CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked if anyone else had asked for the three new species to be added to the game farm definition. SENATOR MILLER replied there had been one individual who had asked for Sitka black-tailed deer to be added. Senator Miller added caribou because he felt it was important to do so because of the lawsuits. CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked what lawsuits he was referring to. SENATOR MILLER replied there are a number of lawsuits filed against the federal government by the state of Alaska on a number of issues and added that the caribou issue dates back to 1937. REPRESENTATIVE PAT CARNEY expressed support for leaving caribou in the definition. Number 134 JOHN CRAMER, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF AGRICULTURE, DNR, stated most of the original concerns on SB 46 have been addressed. He pointed out that game farming is a viable industry in Alaska. There is a need for SB 46 to help the industry as well as allow the department to draft regulations to make the industry even more viable. He said there are problems on SB 46 yet to be addressed but he felt the problems can be resolved. REPRESENTATIVE CON BUNDE stated there will be oversight involved and asked Mr. Cramer to speak to the fiscal impact. MR. CRAMER replied that DNR has a fiscal note of $10,000 and that money will primarily be used for travel to sites for on-site evaluations. He said in regard to Representative Green's statement about dairy cows, he did not feel the game farming industry will involve populations in a confined setting. REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked if dairy cows are kept in a barn the entire winter. MR. CRAMER said some are. He noted it depends on whether or not it is a confinement operation. (CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS noted for the record that REPRESENTATIVE MULDER had joined the committee at 8:27 p.m.) Number 176 CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS said there have been many discussions in regard to disease problems and asked Mr. Cramer to comment. MR. CRAMER responded the state does not allow the importation of moose and Sitka black-tailed deer into the state. Therefore, those animals cannot be brought into Alaska or purchased from outside the state and brought into the state to be farmed. He said the only source of animals will be from ADF&G and from the resources currently in the state. He stated disease is controlled by DEC and stressed they do a good job, proven by the game farms already in place. REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked the viability of game farming the three new animals listed in the definition. MR. CRAMER replied there are farms outside the state currently farming the animals and are successful. He could not speculate whether or not the farming can be accomplished in Alaska. REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES requested a list of operations who farm the three animals in the lower 48. Number 210 REPRESENTATIVE DAVID FINKELSTEIN asked if there are places where caribou are being farmed. MR. CRAMER replied there are farms outside of the Seward Peninsula where there are open range grazing type animals in confinement type operations. He added there are confined caribou operations in the lower 48. REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN said he did not understand Section 16, on page 7 which says, "After a person acquires an animal under this section for commercial purposes, a license or permit from the department is not required in order to possess the animal." MR. CRAMER stated that section is referring to an animal which is obtained through the experimental animal husbandry permit from ADF&G. Once the animal is turned over to private ownership, the person is not required to continue to have the experimental permit but rather to have a regular game farm license. REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN disagreed and said the language states "a license or permit," not that particular license. He asked where "a license or permit" connects with an experimental permit. MR. CRAMER replied the experimental permit is mentioned in the language prior to the section being referred to beginning on line 7, page 7. REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN felt the entire section is extremely confusing. He also thought the final sentence in Section 16 is confusing where it states, "A license or permit from the department is not required in order to import, export, or possess a game farm animal for commercial purposes under a game farming license." He stated it does not make sense in the context of what is being discussed. MR. CRAMER stated the animals which can be imported into the state are elk, musk oxen, and bison. He said the other animals listed cannot. He thought the language is addressing those animals specifically. REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN disagreed that it does not apply only to those species because on page 4, the definition of game farm animal includes bison, caribou, elk, moose, Sitka black-tailed deer, reindeer, and musk oxen. MR. CRAMER pointed out that current statute defines game farm animals as musk oxen, bison, and elk. REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN stated the proposed legislation will include all of the species. He pointed out the new law will say, "A license or permit from the department is not required in order to import, export, or possess a game farm animal for commercial purposes under a game farming license." and game farm animal includes all seven animals. He thought perhaps there is a drafting problem. Number 307 BILL WARD, WARD FARMS, SOLDOTNA, stated he currently raises elk and will soon have musk oxen. He said musk oxen, elk, reindeer, and bison will not be affected by any action taken on SB 46, as they presently are a legal animal to farm. He stated SB 46 will help clean up regulatory power to ensure those animals, and any others added, are managed in a way to make the industry more successful and viable. He felt the animal welfare issue is more of an issue than disease. SB 46 contains language ensuring that animal welfare concerns are addressed. Mr. Ward said from a commercial owner's aspect, animal welfare is critical. MR. WARD stated there are many provisions in SB 46 which will help create a strong and safe industry and one that is pleasing to the public perception. He noted the remaining problems on the bill are a matter of semantics. The closing issues not resolved are whether or not caribou, moose, and Sitka black-tailed deer are going to be included under the definition of game farm animal. He said the Administration does not want those animals classified as a game farm animal but rather wants to allow people with those animals to go through the animal husbandry permit process. Once they qualified and complied with that process, they could then apply to have those animals added to the list. Senator Miller's office was concerned the statute did not contain strong enough language to ever force that to happen and those people would be stuck under a never ending permit, never being allowed to gain ownership after investing a lot of time and money. MR. WARD noted that both versions of the bill which have been presented accomplish the same thing. For moose, caribou, and Sitka black-tailed deer, a person must go through the animal husbandry permit process and comply with strict guidelines, which will be established by ADF&G, before there is any opportunity to own the animals. He felt there is too much to gain in order to lose the proposed legislation due to differences of opinion on the way the wording should be presented. Number 362 REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked Mr. Ward if he is interested in farming any of the new proposed game farm animals. MR. WARD replied he is not, as he is happy with the animals he is currently raising. REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked Mr. Ward how many animals does he currently farm. Number 370 MR. WARD replied he has 67 elk farmed on 160 acres currently, with another 80 acres to be added soon. REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON wondered if moose will require additional acreage. MR. WARD said he does not have the knowledge to answer the question but in talking with other people, his understanding is that moose require a lot of land to support themselves, especially since they are a solitary animal. Number 385 WAYNE REGELIN, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF WILDLIFE CONSERVATION, DNR, stated there are many good provisions in SB 46 which will help the game farm industry, and the department supports those provisions. The department is concerned, however, with the inclusion of Sitka black-tailed deer, caribou, and moose in the definition of game farm animals and believes it is wise to keep those three species separate. He pointed out what the department attempted to keep in SB 46 is to allow moose, caribou, and Sitka black- tailed deer to be held by individuals under an experimental animal husbandry permit under the department's authority. Regulations would then be developed by DNR to establish guidelines under which the three species could be added if they are successful as game farm species. MR. REGELIN stated the department feels it is important to keep game farming separate from the experimental animal husbandry permits. He said he was also confused on some of the language contained in the new version because there is a mingling of Title 30 and Title 16; one is DNR regulations and one is ADF&G regulations, and statutory responsibilities are contained in both titles. He felt it will be a legal morass for DNR and ADF&G to have overlapping and confusing authorities under game farming. MR. REGELIN said another concern of the department is that under the experimental animal husbandry permit, ownership is retained by the state but would allow the meat to be sold. The department is concerned about allowing state property to be sold. He felt there is a possibility of resolving the issues and concerns relating to SB 46 or if they cannot be resolved, let the legislative process take its course. Number 429 REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE agreed with the concern regarding the sale of state property, especially something as perishable as meat. CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS felt there are going to be incentives to poach animals. MR. REGELIN responded the Division of Fish and Wildlife Protection have concerns regarding that issue also. REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN requested that at some point a version of SB 46 be presented which represents the point of view expressed by Mr. Regelin. REPRESENTATIVE CARNEY stated in 1979 he struggled with the same issues being discussed in regard to farming bison and some of the same arguments were heard. He pointed out that bison has become a good animal for farming and because some people feel it is not economically feasible to farm moose does not mean that someone should not be allowed to try. CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS expressed concern regarding poaching of Sitka black-tailed deer. Number 488 LEE PUTNAM, REPRESENTATIVE, KETCHIKAN SPORTS AND WILDLIFE CLUB, testified via teleconference and stated SB 46 provides an opportunity for potential income in rural areas which presently have few opportunities to make money. The farming of game animals, with proper restraint, can be and has been profitable in other countries. If the rules and regulations are strict enough to protect the resource, but loose enough to allow game farmers to profit, the Ketchikan Sports and Wildlife Club feels that game farming in Alaska can be successful. The club urges passage of SB 46. ROBERT SHUMAKER, PALMER, testified via teleconference and stated he is in the cattle and swine business and is interested in developing an additional business in game animals. He felt the option of game farming should be open to any member of the public. He expressed concern with lines 20 and 21, on page 5 of the original version of the bill which states, "A person who receives moose under (a) of this section after the effective date of this subsection may not raise moose and domestic livestock in the same fenced area." He said if the intent is to domesticate animals, he felt there is a need to be able to farm game farm and domesticated animals together. MR. SHUMAKER said reliance on the veterinarian is important, but he felt there should be something in the bill which provides for the use of information ADF&G already has since they are already farming moose. Number 572 LEONARD MOFFITT, PALMER, testified via teleconference and agreed with Mr. Shumaker's comments. He stated that minimum government involvement is necessary for economic success in game farming. He felt game farming can help offset the decline in oil revenue. SANDRA ARNOLD, REPRESENTATIVE, ALASKA WILDLIFE ALLIANCE, testified via teleconference and stated the Alliance strongly opposes moose farming, or the farming of any other wildlife species. The long-term implications of allowing moose farming have not been considered. She stressed SB 46 is shortsighted, speculative, largely experimental, and made with the well being and profits of a few people in mind, rather than Alaska or its wildlife as a whole. MS. ARNOLD pointed out that just like any industry, wildlife farmers will have to be monitored, regulated, administered, registered, inspected and tested; paperwork, procedures, and staff time must be established or increased, and there are many questions which SB 46 fails to consider. She asked what is the possibility of disease transfer from farmed moose to other wildlife. She said nobody knows, but the few lines of this bill which require the commissioner and veterinarians to prevent the spread of pests and diseases give little indication how that will be accomplished, or if it is even possible. She felt no matter how well DEC does their job of controlling disease, the risk of disease is not zero and SB 46 has no provisions for what will happen when disease problems occur. She expressed concern about the risk to Alaska's wildlife which farming might pose. MS. ARNOLD asked how animals will be kept separate from wild stock. How will bears, wolves, and other predators be kept from entering moose farms, which they will naturally be attracted to, and will farmers be allowed to shoot bears that enter the farms. She stated SB 46 requires farmers to build a fence to keep animals in and out, but it goes on to say that the commissioner must be notified when an animal escapes and enters, so the bill itself acknowledges that fences are not foolproof. MS. ARNOLD wondered why Alaska ignores the track record of moose farming in other locations. She asked who will absorb the costs of failures and what are the possibilities for increased poaching of moose, if the sale of meat will be made legal. She inquired what costs are involved in certifying, inspecting, and establishing a bureaucracy to deal with all that. She questioned where the fiscal note is. She stated the Alliance cannot support any version of SB 46 and asked the committee to respect Alaska's wildlife and reject the bill. MS. ARNOLD expressed dissatisfaction with not having the latest version of SB 46. She was also unhappy that meetings without public participation were held in negotiating the latest version of SB 46. Number 659 BOB LOCHNER, ANCHORAGE, testified via teleconference and stated he has heard many concerns regarding the wildlife. He expressed concern with the public safety aspect. He has seen many newspaper articles about vehicles hitting moose and moose being destroyed in residential areas. He felt it is important for moose farms to exist to provide the option of transporting nuisance animals to game farms in order to take them away from residential areas. He added that construction ongoing in residential areas involves clearing away a lot of timber and willows grow up, attracting moose. He stressed people are creating the problem, but have no solutions. He stated SB 46 is the only viable solution. TAPE 94-28, SIDE B Number 000 REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said when there is a nuisance moose in Anchorage, the authorities try and chase it away, they do not try to pick it up physically and carry it away. He asked what are the chances for survival when tranquilizing and relocating a moose. MR. REGELIN responded in the majority of cases, the department tries to move an animal by chasing it away; rarely does the department attempt to move it by drugging it and transporting it. He did not have any numbers on how many are handled, but estimated the department handles several hundred complaints each year in Anchorage. REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked how successful is the department in tranquilizing and moving an animal and having the animal survive. MR. REGELIN replied if the animal is tranquilized and left where it is, there is high success; if the animal is moved there are problems. REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked if there is a need to move the animal does the department have to kill it. MR. REGELIN said the chances are 50/50 or less. REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked what the cost is for tranquilizing and moving a moose. MR. REGELIN replied the drugs cost $150 and the time involved would be one-half day for two people. REPRESENTATIVE CARNEY stated the person farming would probably be happy to take the moose by tranquilizing and hauling it. CAROL JENSEN, ANCHORAGE, testified via teleconference and stated if ADF&G personnel, who are skilled in tranquilizing animals, do not feel comfortable about tranquilizing and moving animals, she did not believe laymen should be allowed to do so. She expressed opposition to SB 46 and said the bill does not give any consideration to long-term adverse effects. She pointed out the state is totally incapable of monitoring, regulating, and ensuring the welfare and humane treatment of animals in captivity as illustrated by the Alaska Zoo, fur farms, dairy farming projects, etc. There is not one example confirming that the state has the time, money or resources to get involved in what it will take to assure animal welfare. She stated the cost is too high and with the state's budget cutbacks, it cannot be done. MS. JENSEN stated if SB 46 passes, in addition to having an annual license fee, there should be an inspection of the facility before the license or permit is automatically renewed. She pointed out there is only one veterinarian and he has never taken any action before until a critical stage was reached. She noted SB 46 encourages massive breeding which could quickly and easily get out of hand, resulting in the animal population becoming too large for the facility and becoming too much of a financial burden on the owner. This would further result in inadequate care, excessive slaughter, elimination of disease control, and possible total abandonment of the animals which has happened before. MS. JENSEN felt the experimenting aspect of the bill could result in medical or drug experimentation which could be bad for the animals welfare. She expressed concern with sections in the bill which are contradictory. She stated SB 46 does not allow for any public knowledge or comments. She agreed with comments made by Ms. Arnold. She again expressed opposition to SB 46. Number 070 STANLEY NED, REPRESENTATIVE, TANANA CHIEFS CONFERENCE (TCC), testified via teleconference and stated TCC's first priority is to protect the natural resources the members depend on. TCC cannot support any version of SB 46. He said their opposition is based on their religious beliefs regarding the handling of wild game. Native law demands that wild game be treated with respect and must be kept wild and untouched by human hands. He stated other problems with SB 46 include the threat of disease. Infection can be transmitted from domestic stock through water, feces, and other sources. He gave various examples of disease transmittals which have occurred. He stated SB 46 will be costly to the state, including many hidden costs. He said TCC is adamantly opposed to SB 46. JEREMY WELTON, FAIRBANKS, testified via teleconference and asked committee members to pass SB 46. OPAL WELTON, FAIRBANKS, testified via teleconference and stated ADF&G wishes to hold SB 46 by providing misinformation as they have done for the past six years. She said many testimonies have stated that ADF&G is "far less than honest"; "they won't tell the whole truth"; "their opinion is tainted"; etc. She stated there are two opinions from the Attorney General stating that it is already legal to raise and own game animals under existing permits. Yet ADF&G says it is illegal and implies that it is immoral for Alaskans to help and care for orphaned, starving, injured, and misplaced animals. She pointed out that the Interior has been asking for the chance to care for moose for over 40 years. She urged passage of SB 46. CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS announced SB 46 will be put into a subcommittee to resolve the problems involved. He appointed Representatives Carney, Davies, and Mulder to the subcommittee with Representative Carney to serve as Chair. Number 150 DOUG WELTON, FAIRBANKS, distributed several photos of moose in various captive situations. He said the state has done research and has information supporting small scale farming of moose. He pointed out that moose have been milked untethered and can be called in by a whistle and he did not see any harm in his family having two or three moose on their 40 acres to provide a fresh supply of meat and milk. He thought the public safety issue is a problem in that moose are being killed on highways and the railroad by the hundreds which he felt is a lousy management technique. He stated the animals can be removed, put on farms and can be the breeding stock for a future industry for rural Alaskans. He stated ADF&G is doing nothing. It has been recommended that people be allowed to remove animals regardless of age, putting them to better use. MR. WELTON said deer have been raised throughout the U.S. and are being sold. He noted he can go to almost any state and buy Sitka black-tailed deer but he cannot buy one in Alaska where they come from. He stated moose are being bred, sold, and being held in captive situations. He pointed out that ADF&G has recognized moose as a popular exhibit animal and has gone to great lengths to make them such. A pellet ration has been developed in the state that once a wild animal gets in and eats the ration, they do not want to leave because it is so good. Game farming will be a boon to the local farmer of carrots, cabbage, lettuce, beets, potatoes, etc. He urged the committee to pass SB 46 Number 192 REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN felt Mr. Welton's techniques on SB 46 do not work to his benefit. He stated that Mr. Welton and his family insulting ADF&G and calling ADF&G personnel, they disagree with, liars and attacking the committee process, which is sincere in resolving issues, is not going to serve his purpose.
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